The Zim Family Cocker Spaniel Forum

Yep extra care and cleaning with a narrow canal I personal would not consider such a thing without a specialist. I think he is a bit young to know if it's needed

Ask your vet for a referral to an ear specialist. I do think that most vets do the surgery. It's very intrusive, but after the surgery healing time, your baby would be pain free.

Holy moly, I would never go to an ablation so quickly on a five month old pup. Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance, is the key to keeping a healthy cocker ear. Not just when they stink, or he's itching, but a couple, maybe even three times a week, every week, all year for a narrow canal. Read through the various ear threads here and see what everyone recommends for maintenance. The recipe Jim has, K-9 Liquid Health ear solution, or make it yourself blue power treatment. Any one will probably keep you problems at bay.

Thanks for your posts.

Here is an update.

We brought Arlo home at 8 weeks. At that time his ears already smelled.
We went to the Vet - and they saw his ears 3 times with no sign of infection.

So - we used the Jim Zimm treatment and the smell went away. However, about 3 weeks ago he had that bad experience with us being unable to remove his collar (he bit me) and clearly did not want that collar put over his head.

So - we went to the vet.
This time she found a growth and the canal very narrow.

We did the treatments I listed in my original post. When we went back for a check up there was no improvement. So, this Thursday he goes under and they biopsy the growth.

Now - tonight I touched his ear and he yelped. We feel so bad for him. So young and already in pain.

Thus the maintenance was being done - we were very attentive to this - and still he is in alot of pain.
Once they finish the research this Thursday we'll get an ear specialist.

He is SO sweet - it breaks our hearts.

:)

PS..

We are looking for any recommendations for allergist or ear specialist in Los Angeles area that people know are good. We will also be asking our Vet for recommendations but if anyone here had a good experience we'd love to know.



Thanks

Leigh

I don't think there is such a thing as an ear specialist. A dermatologist will be your best bet to fix the ears because it is a skin thing. A surgeon is what you would want to use for an ablation.

However, growth aside, there is no way talking about an ablation at this point is appropriate. One, a culture has not been run on the ear, so there is no way to know if the antibiotic he was on was even effective against what's growing in his ear (the infection not the actual growth). I know some people swear by the Zymox, and good for them for it working, but if I were facing talk of an ablation in my dog I want some good old fashioned antibiotics and antifungals in my dogs ear, not enzymes (which have their place, but IMO not here).

Just out of curiosity, what color is the discharge in his ear? Too often vets put cockers on antibiotics when in fact they have yeast infections and the antibiotics just make it worse.

I'm also curious about the narrow ear canal. Is that by nature or is it swollen? If it's that swollen he should also be on an anti-inflammatory.

Just my opinion - I am not a vet ...

HOWEVER I have cared for hundreds of Cockers in my 8 years of doing active rescue work.

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT do an ablation on the pups ears! K9 ear solution cleaning instead!

TRUE STORY:
A cocker came into rescue (adult/senior) whose canals were the worst I have ever seen. Calcified. Almost completely closed off. Infections supreme. My vet wanted to do the ablation - I was afraid we'd finally have to do one in the Rescue. BUT - I had experience and faith in the K9 Ear Solution so we put off the surgery, to see if the tales of "miracles" were true.

Ginny's ears were SO closed off, the Foster Mom could just barely trickle the solution down the canals to start with - instead of inserting the tip of the bottle into the canal as she usually did. THREE TIMES A DAY to start for treatment. After about 3-4 months she was able to start cutting back the frequency until the 6th month, Ginny was finally on 1x week maintenance. We went back into my vet (who I trust 100% in ear issues) and he took a look (took before/after photos too). He couldn't believe it was the same Cocker! Calcification was GONE. Redness/irritation was GONE. Canals were OPEN.

Really - in extreme cases it does take a lot of CONSISTANT work, but it CAN be done!!!

(PS - be sure there is no corn, wheat or by-products in food and treats - they can make recurring infections worse. If your dog swims, clean ears with K9 Ear Solution right after swimming. Cotton in ears when bathing).

PLEASE do NOT ablate a puppy's ears!

And I love your pup's face - it's a look that I just adore : )-

I don't think you will see improvement until after the growth is out assuming it is painful. Even treating his ears with anything is probably painful to him.

Please keep us posted!

Julie, the zymox for Abby is strictly maintenance. It was not the treatment or med I used when she had the nasty infection, which I do believe was yeast. For the infection we used metomax or something like that.

Thanks for all the posts:

For now we will do the following:
This Thursday morning he goes under and they will:
Remove the mass (and biopsy)
Do a flush
Put an antibiotic treatment in his ear that will last 2 weeks.
I do not know if they will also give anti-inflammatory or other meds.

(I don’t know if flush is both ears and will get that confirmation).

While under we are asking them to:
Shave his hair on the underside of ears while under as well.
At that time we’ll learn if they could see the ear drum.

Meanwhile...
The meds will be for two weeks – so during that time – We will put him on the allergy diet (or allergy elimination diet) and see the dermatologist specialist - which they say is the allergy doctor as well. (Thanks for the diet info Debbie)

I will ask my Vet and Dermatologist about K9 and see when that could be tried.
(Thanks for the tip Peggy)

Expectation:
My other vet (I have 2) thinks the mass will be one of an “inflammatory nature” - she also said in all her years of practice she has never seen cancer in the ear so young – nor such a fast onset. So, that is good news.

She also thinks the canal was likely not so narrow in the beginning (feeling it is not from birth) because they had looked for trouble with his smelly ears last December and had not noticed this problem.

IF this problem is not resolved from this initial treatment...

When he is neutered (in about a month or so) they will be able to take a another look then – my vet can have the specialist there at same time.

NO surgery (ablation) will be considered:
Until we exhaust all treatments (allergies – meds – etc).
Not so young
And, for sure not without running these stages by all of you as your feedback has been extremely valuable and helpful.

Thanks again for the posts.

:)
Leigh (and Arlo)

I'm so glad the ablation will be a last resort. Like the others, I felt it was your pup was young. I had a very old female rescue who was blind. One ear was nearly swollen shut. One vet in the group I go to wanted to do an ablation. I refrused. Tunie never acted like it hurt. I flushed her ears every day. She lived like that till the day she died.

I know that the ablation is necessary for some dogs. But the recovery is really something else. Personally I wouldn't put my dog thru it unless there is no other recourse.

May I suggest that you request a culture and sensitivity BEFORE they do the flush and 2 week treatment. If what is growing in his ear is not sensitive to that antibiotic, it will do absolutely NO good at all.

What the C/S does is grow the bacteria in his ear on a medium. They then take each type (usually there is more than one) and put it in a separate medium (augar disc). Then they'll put little antibiotic discs on the different bacteria all around the medium and see which one gets the widest 'clear' margin around it, meaning which one keeps that bacteria the farthest away from it. That's the one you need to go with.

IMO a bad bacterial ear infection needs to be treated both orally and topically.

I say this from many years not only as a cocker owner, but a vet tech as well.

Thanks for your post Julie.

The last time they saw him they looked at a smear and ruled out yeast.

I asked for a culture and sensitivity while he is under and for some reason they suggested we wait.

I called my other vet. She is out of the country - but her associate talked with me. We talked it through. In the end she felt we should go ahead with the 2 week treatment now rather than wait for the culture. And, meanwhile - we'll learn the culture results as well. She felt that perhaps the other vet was trying to save us money. But, we'll be asking for the culture anyway.

Thanks all...

I am so sorry for all the ear problems. Cockers are known for this problem.. Hope the growth pathology comes back negative. I am not sure if you were able to see the growth and how it looks. Last year my Holly who has multiple medical issues and is 12 years old had a growth on her ear. It grew so fast and it looked like a grape bunch, dark red/purple the vet just cut it off with no anesthesia, the biopsy results were negative. Good luck and hope the pathology is negative.

Update:

The news was mixed and sad.


First the good news:
The ear canal was more open and the Vet could see the ear drum. This is good because the narrow canal was not structural.

The bad news:
The growth in Arlo's ear (about 3/4 size of eraser head) turned out to be so hard - (bony) that the Vet stopped the procedure.
They could not even break any portion off (to dangerously close to the ear drum) to take a look at or biopsy.

Also - while under when they touched around the growth the nerve would cause his head to twitch a little. Meaning this growth is agitating the nerve.

Next Step:
Referred to surgen who will take skull xrays and most likely CT SCAN to see what they can.
After that - they hope to get better idea of what it is.

Once that is known we will know how to proceed.

Possible causes?
There was mention of possible teeth growing in wrong direction (rare ) and don't think this is it.
But, then this growth is rare according to even the surgeon.

Our Vet called the surgeon personally to see if there where any ideas.
Arlo is so young (5 months) .. they are all stumped. He seems too young for primary bone cancer.
The one possibility is congenital tumor. If this is the case we are praying for benign.

Anyone hear of things like this before?

Thanks for listening ... :)

I have no experience, but I sure am praying for something benign that can be removed without causing additional problems. If it is close to or gets close to a nerve there would be pain I'd think.

I feel absolutely sick for you and Arlo. I know how worried you must be.

This is really a tough case. You might want to contact the UC-Davis Vet School. There are some LA vets who are associated with the vet school, or at least work closely with them on these unusual cases.

Colleen Keough

I love the video. Arlo is so incredibly cute.

It sounds as if you have a lot of trust in your vet. I have the same in mine. I love mine and feel I can take every word he says as FACT...never had a reason to feel differently. Keep us posted on Arlo's CT and the surgeons report. I hoping for a good report and a quick healing for that happy cute little guy.

I'm sending positive thoughts and prayers for Arlo and you. I know how hard this must be. May the drs. successfully diagnose and treat little, darling Arlo's ear issues.

Leigh:

I just wanted to add my prayers and good thoughts for you and Arlo as you go through this procedure. I can't remember whether Arlo is a rescue or whether he came from a breeder, but I'm wondering if you have talked with his breeder at all to see if any of the other pups in the litter are affected with the same type of problem? I feel so sorry for him to be so young and in pain, and hope for the best resolution as you proceed.