The Zim Family Cocker Spaniel Forum

Dana!

Maddie looks wonderful! I'm so happy for you both!

Chessie got that same caterpillar toy for Christmas... of course hers is now minus two antenna and has a hole in it's head .

I'm so so happy she is feeling better -- and you can tell she's feeling better because she's back to her old antics of acting up when the mood strikes her


Maddie carried that thing around religiously for about two weeks, and then she accidentally left it outside for a while. When she remembered, she signaled me that she needed to go out, and then played tug with the ice and the snow and couldn't get it off because it was frozen to the deck with ice It lost an antenna when I pulled it from the ice (when the ice melted I had to pick the antenna off the deck and throw it away)... and when the caterpillar dried out in the house she didn't seem interested in it anymore. I guess it just wasn't the same

LOL...
Perhaps she knew it was injured and she didn't want to hurt it?
Chessie on the other hand flings hers around so much I worry she will hurt herself! Silly puppy! I knew when I bought it that it would not last long... but I figured she'd chew the legs off one at a time since she loves to chew ropes... but so far she hasn't touched them but it only took about 2 minutes for an antenna to get chomped off!

Hi Dana. I'm glad things are turning around for your dog. I just wanted to relate my findings with Atticus since reading this post. After you were talking about the Vit A, I decided to buy some for Atticus to see if it would help him with his allergies. I was giving 1/2 tsp. daily to him for several weeks. What I noticed with him was that he was more active (wanting to go outside and run around when he would normally just lay in the kitchen and also when I took him to the groomers in late December, she said he just seems happier). Then I changed their diet a few weeks ago and went to just the salmon oil caps (thinking that an oil is an oil whether it be salmon oil caps or cod liver oil (Vit. A). Well - he went back to just laying around again. Then I just read in one of my books by Susan K. Johnson - Switching To Raw - quote "Don't confuse cod liver oil with the fish body oils mentioned under Essential Fatty Acids. Cod Liver Oil is used to supply Vitamin D." So now I have added back the Norwegian Cod Liver Oil along with the salmon oils caps and he does seem happier again :-) It has done nothing yet for the licking at all but hopefully that will come in time.

I wanted to update again on Maddie, for those who are interested.

It has been almost 4mos since treatment began. I have been able to back off on all of her medication. She's getting Vit A once a day, and fish oil every couple of days. And I've only had to bath her once I week, but she can go every other week if needed.
ALL of her bald spots have hair growing in, normal, nice and soft and thick. The length has caught up to the rest of her hair and she's looking great
Her hair on her back is not patchy or thin or anything anymore. Actually, I'm considering letting it grow back out again

What pictures can't show, is how soft and normal her fur feels. And, all of her black skin has lightened back up and returned to normal.
Actually, the only evidence that anything ever 'happened' is black speckles... almost "freckle like" on her lower abdomen. And, we're going to follow up with our vet soon for a regular checkup, bloodwork and all that... I'm concerned about her bad breath (it's not her teeth) and... frequency of passing gas

Anyway, on with the pics!

101_1913 by missdanabob, on Flickr


101_1905 by missdanabob, on Flickr

Hi Dana. I'm glad everything is going so wonderfully for your dog I just wanted to double check with you - are you still giving the 8000 iu of Vit. A per day and also - What strength are the EFA's - 1000 mg? I did buy some Vitamin Shoppe Cod Liver Oil capsules (Vit. A & D) that are 1250 iu per capsule. I have only been giving 1 cap per day to Atticus but wondered about upping it? I also give a 1000 mg. salmon oil cap daily too.
So - these are the only 2 supplements your dog is getting now? What food are you feeding her?

Yep, the Vit A is 8,000iu, and I was able to back it off to once a day because she's improved so much. The EFA's I'm only giving every couple of days at the advice of the vet - they were causing her to have thick, fish-smelling, pasty stools that were hard for her to pass (sorry for that visual LOL). But I also supplement with Grizzly's Salmon Oil on her food 1 meal a day, and she gets a raw egg once a week.
As for her food, she really loves, and seems to be doing well on The Honest Kitchen Preference (this is the one you add your own meat). The RMBs are great for her teeth, and she's always thrived on a raw diet. I have a lack of freezer space here, so I wanted to go this route just to be safe, I wanted to make sure she was getting a balanced diet.
http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/preference/

Hey Dana. I feed Atticus and Scout a raw diet as well. They get ground raw beef/chicken/turkey/pork or lamb - 1 protein at a time and not longer than 2 days in a row with a pureed mixture of swiss chard, celery, zucchini, cabbage and broccoli. To that I add 900 mg. of calcium citrate to every 1 lb. of food to balance it. They also get 1/8 tsp. of vit. C daily (calcium ascorbate) and then the efa's, vit e and the vit a pills. Twice during a 14 day span they will get 3 soft-boiled eggs each for supper one day and organ meat (liver, heart & kidneys) for breakfast with a pork riblet or beef brisket bone to chew on for a treat during the day.
I think I will up the Vit. A - like I said in an earlier post - when Atticus was just getting the Vit A liquid - I could notice a big change in him - maybe the capsules aren't as potent as just the liquid?? One questions though - "they" always say you should give a vit. e cap when giving efa's - do you not have to do the same with vit a (cod liver oil)?? I will have to google that.

sorry, Jackie, I didn't see your post until just now!!


Another Update::
Well, Maddie is still doing good! I had to return to the Vit A twice a day, because she was having a bit of a 'flare up'... But it stopped the flare up in its tracks and she started to look immediately better. I think we just weaned her off of too much, too soon. We're still doing the keto half a pill 3x a week (MWF), I don't know how much longer we'll have to do that. If she shows any further signs I'll have to up the baths again, which we're both hoping I don't have to do but so far, not

She had a 'senior' wellness exam today, to check blood-work and everything. Since she's on the Vit A, and Vit A is a fat soluble vitamin the dermatologist told me to keep a close eye on her on the mild chance she could 'OD' so to speak.
Also, I always want a thorough checkup of everything else, especially her joints, teeth and her good eye. Apparently despite everything she looks REALLY good for her age which is a HUGE relief to hear! But she has very minimal tatar, that of a 4-5 year old dog and everything else looks good, and sounds good. I won't hear blood-work results until tomorrow, and *fingers crossed* the vet doesn't suspect anything will be off at all.



I sure hope the dermatologist is as thrilled with Maddie's progress as I am!

Haven't posted in a long time but still read quite often. Thought I'd go and resurrect this topic since I'm dealing with it now as well.

Rowdy is having scaly crusty skin issues. Yes he is hypothyroid and it has been corrected with meds. Soon after we started treating the thyroid, the crusty lesions disappeared. However, the soloxine dosage was at first too high and when brought down to therapeutic levels, the crusty bumps started to reappear although not as bad as before thyroid treatment.

.....My Vet has prescribed an antibiotic, medicated baths, and suspecting Vitamin A responsive dermatosis, he has now told me to start him on 10,000 vitamin a once a day with a recheck in 3 weeks.

My question is what type of Vitamin A do you use? My Vet was not specific but did mention gel caps. I thought I read somewhere that it should be a dry vitamin A. I bought both Solgar's dry beta carotene 10,000 IU and also Solgar's Natural Vitamin A 10,000 IU from fish liver oils. I have started him on the dry but am wondering if that's best. Is beta carotene as useful to dogs as the fish liver oil? I plan on asking the Vet of course but wanted some input from you guys. I find I get much more out of Vets if I'm armed with some info beforehand.

So what types of Vitamin A do you use, or were told to use.

Thanks much.....

Hi - sorry I can't be of any help to you - I don't feed raw anymore, just kibble and now have Atticus on a Chinese Herb plus reactine according to a alternative vet I recently had Atticus to.

Jackie...thanks for the response. I was just trying to find out about the best type of Vitamin A for a dog. Maybe I should start a new topic. I don't think folks are looking at this one much anymore.

Thanks again.....

Sorry, I haven't been on the boards very much! I hope I can answer your questions from my experience...


I was told to get and I still use the gel caps, more specifically Nature Made Vitamin A 8000 I.U - 100 Softgels like these http://www.naturemade.com/Products/A-Vi ... -A-8000-IU I was using a more expensive soy free kind, but I found that Maddie is not sensitive to soy (instead, she is allergic to wheat)
...It was explained to me that there are two basic sources of Vitamin A you can use. Vegetable and fish liver oil for dogs. The beta-carotene found in orange colored vegetables like carrots and sweet potatoes, and since dogs are not naturally herbivores, the fish liver oil is preferred. But I do not have any specific or scientific proof of this (I guess I could search lol but...), it was just explained to me like that when I asked.

As for a Maddie update... Maddie turned 10 in April AND it will be two years in November since she was Diagnosed with Vitamin A Responsive Dermatosis.
As of right now, she is no longer an any medication or shampoos regularly, it is an "as needed" basis, and her skin condition is 100% under control She is looking, feeling, and acting GREAT

Dana, thank you so much. I haven't checked back here in awhile so I just saw this now. I had started Rowdy on the beta carotene and he's tolerating it well, so I was reluctant to change just yet, I see the Vet on Saturday so I'll pass my questions by him as well. I actually have 3 types of vitamin A now..lol I'm going to bring them all in with me see what he thinks, There is already improvement in his skin, but that may still be from the antibiotic. One thing that's interesting is he seems so much more happier and more active and his appetite has improved. I wonder how many cockers suffer from this and are not treated properly. Maddie looks wonderful. I am very excited about this. Again, thanks so much for the reply!!!!